Kevin Fink made several updates to what is going on at Flippa in what is certainly the thread of the week if not the year on Namepros. At the end of his comments he started a new topic which is a look forward.
Shane Bellone posted.“So you THOUGHT Flippa was shady?” on Wednesday and the thread is still going strong on Saturday. It is safe to say all hell has broken loose, the conversation has gone into a lot of other accusations and info provided on sellers and their background.
It is clear that Flippa has been a hot topic on people’s minds for a long time. I really would like to see Flippa senior management step up and say something, this situation has gone further than just one rant on a forum. People are talking about this in a lot of places no one knows about, these people are not going to leave a comment or post on Namepros.
Flippa senior management should come out with a blog post on their blog and not just leave Kevin Fink out there to deal with this by himself. Kevin tries hard to make things right from everything I have seen. I don’t know every relationship with every Flippa member, but he has always seemed to be a stand up guy to me. Flippa not Kevin needs to make a statement when people question the integrity of your business.
If you read the 199 posts, which have close to 10,000 views, this is not just about Shane Bellone’s comments, people have questions about other sellers and want answers.
Kevin did post some updates relevant to Flippa. In responding to members asking for upgrades to go away or the price to be lowered Kevin posted:
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It’s not about reducing the price, which will clog / oversaturate things further. Some history:
In 2014, we had hundreds of auctions — there were maybe 50-100 Premium listings at any one time, well seen.
Now with thousands of auctions and hundreds of Premium listings, it is harder to stand out — but make no mistake: you still do: if you have a good or great domain, upgrades still work.
However, if you have a poor domain, no upgrade in the world (paid, subsidized, free) is going to help you. That’s why sellers are now urged to message us first to discuss. When applicable, we recommend sellers bypass a paid auction / upgrade altogether and deposit the domain straight into their Flippa Portfolio for free.​
Also, let’s clear one thing up:
There are no in-house Super Sellers who we “give special treatment to” any longer.
Furthermore, it’s been specified in here that many of our sellers have been given listing credits and upgrade subsidies. Why? Because they asked or at least opened conversation with us so we could see how we could help them achieve what we’re all here to do: sell domains.
Maybe from where I was sitting I was testing out a different price-point? A different model? Maybe I understand and agree with you that they’re too expensive?!
We’re about to have a frank conversation about upgrades (link to follow).
Editor’s Choice Picks
Yes – upon inception of this program, I cast a wide net and threw a lot at the board to see what stuck. I – and I alone – set improper standards, plain and simple.
Forget about what was; moving forward, we’re running a tight ship. No special / Super Sellers, in-house brokers and no more wide-net.
That said, we will maintain stringent curation:
Do you want your domains to be denoted as Editor’s Choice?
Do you have domains like these?
Shane
Shane worked with me almost daily and was a terrific salesman, selling a large volume of domains.
What Shane left out at first is that he was also hired by us to broker on behalf of other sellers. He used a separate, Flippa Brokerage account for this.
I enjoyed working with him, but in May, we pivoted and acquired Domain Holdings and deactivated our in-house brokerage service.
I regret how we handled that transition. I invited Shane to continue his excellent work as a Super Seller under his personal account. Things got incredibly busy on my end and we lost touch.
Shane speaks his mind a lot, which I really respect. He’s also a veteran and I for one thank him for his sacrifice and his service.
A Look Ahead
- I joined Flippa to build our domains unit, and to help our customers realize their entrepreneurial pursuits.For those of you questioning our sales history, let me remind you once again that anything posted on DNJournal.com and our blog has been manually confirmed, twice over.We grew fast, and that growth shed some light on a structure that can best be described as one that needs improvement.Flippa Domains spawned out of a Websites marketplace, and being so closely tied together complicates things. We share a structure and business model with “this other side” of our business unit that isn’t always able to yield a harmonious symmetry for each set of customers.I constantly say things like “We’re looking into this,” and “This is on our radar,” and blah blah. That’s not just because I’m a “paid hack“, but because…There is actually a vast opportunity we have to fix it.We’re a small company, still – and contrary to what some of you may understand, I am not the CEO. I work with a team who is extremely talented and dedicated to building a better platform, but we can’t do it all – not all at once, at least.But we can and should do the right things. And that’s been my aim since the day I started. (I appreciate those who know this, per @equity78 ‘s constant support and some like @domainshane who commented in this post here).We’re gearing into Year 3 of Flippa Domains.I’m only personally invested in working for a Domain Marketplace because I have the intention of helping it become one of the best marketplaces.I want to take a hard look at what we need to do to reclaim, claim or potentially claim your loyalty.So…let me just get it off my chest:I believe that our current system of Upgrades is shot. We can do better. It’s not about pricing, but moreso what you get if you pay at all.I’m internally pushing forward some ideas of what we can do, but my goal with this post is to provide a constructive space to examine how to create a better way to buy and sell domains in the future. Why the hell else are we here, right?
Good reply by Fink, I would trust him over anyone at Namepros.
pappy taught me a long time ago, never trust a man named Shane, Nuff said !!!
My father taught me to never trust a person who hides behind a keyboard.
Flippa and namepros blow, I think real domainers are on DBR or chat with Rick and Frank offline.
Georgia Dawg,
Terrible mantra 🙂
Flippa wants you to sell Gold.com on their site for $4,200 #FuckingStupid
Thanks, favorite comment of the week, thanks for that.
Thanks for covering this, Ray.
The feedback so far has been really great, and I think there’s a lot we’re going to be able to do.
https://www.namepros.com/threads/flippa-domains-and-the-quest-for-a-near-perfect-marketplace.880429/
If anyone reading this, as you alluded to, has yet to weigh in but wishes to speak privately to myself or someone from Flippa, my email is Kevin.Fink@Flippa.com – reach out anytime.
People are venting, annoyed and skeptical because they feel mislead, deceived and cheated.
Kevin and Flippa have yet to acknowledge, recognize and accept this. Kevin’s look to the future mantra does not overcome the core problem that he and Flippa, and the ‘selling superstars’ cultivated this perception that many people now have.
The ‘selling superstars’ promoted, cheer and boasted about their Sales on Flippa to anyone who would listen. It’s a stretch to say they just wanted to help others and share the love of their new found secret sauce to selling domains. They and Flippa got considerable airplay and exposure on Namepros and Domainsherpa. At every opportunity they promoted Flippa and preached the benefits of the $300 upgrade to sell domains. To them there was only one choice, Flippa and the ‘upgrade’. Many people listened and believed this to be true. They wanted the same success and ability to sell quickly and for high prices. Domainers signed up to Flippa and paid the $300 for their upgrade.
However, many did not sell their domains. They did not see the same magical result they heard the ‘selling superstars’ talking so passionately and convincingly about. They got nothing… This then raised doubts in their minds about the claims made by the ‘selling superstars’ and the benefits of Flippa. People started to question all things Flippa and they became skeptical.
Now it has been confirmed by Shane , Kevin and Flippa that there was not in fact an even playing field at the time of all the fever and hype around the ‘selling superstars’. It has been revealed that some people were more special and more super than others. ‘Selling superstars’, super sellers, brokers, people with a name in the industry and anyone with Kevin’s direct email got special treatment, privileges, upgrades and greater exposure.
From what I have read, Kevin has confirmed this. It does not matter that this special and preferential treatment has recently been stopped. People feel deceived, mislead and cheated by the all the parties concerned. Why shouldn’t they?
@Kevin,
If, as you say, Flippa has done away with special privileges for a minority of sellers, then that is good news for everybody else. The best Flippa could do at this stage is end a bad policy. Admitting that there were “improper standards” takes guts and integrity, Kevin. Good on you.
Flippa’s strategy during the past year has been a big success for Flippa and (some would say) a disaster for Flippa customers. Pumping up a few chosen sellers to an artificial level of success and shining a spotlight on them with all of Flippa’s marketing power – well, that attracted hordes of average sellers who were dazzled by unrealistic dreams and who paid to start auctions. That meant revenue for Flippa; but what it meant for many customers was misspent time, wasted money, and lost confidence.
The listing fees from all those (attempted) sellers have been reinvested to make a better platform. Flippa has introduced all sorts of great website features that weren’t there before your bold leadership, Kevin. And that’s great. Yes, really. Sedo and GoDaddy have been sluggish in comparison, rolling out 1 new feature per Flippa’s 50.
On the other hand, Flippa now has a glut of inventory, since too much attention was paid to attracting sellers – the low-hanging-fruit customers – compared to buyers. It’s always hard for 2-sided market places to grow at the same rate on both sides. Now Flippa has an adult-sized seller footprint, but its buyer footprint is just stepping into puberty. The proportion has been thrown off.
The core of the problem is structural. Flippa differs from other market places like Sedo, Afternic, or GoDaddy Auctions, which only get paid when the seller succeeds in selling. In contrast, Flippa’s business model earns money even from a seller’s failure – from listing fees and promotional upgrades rather than pure commissions.
That incentivizes the company to explore policies that might go against their customers’ interests. Stands to reason. Companies pursue revenue; and while some domain market places depend on sales, Flippa relies on listings as such. Sales are icing on the cake, but mainly they’re nectar to attract more paid listings. You might say that the business model underlying Sedo and Afternic is in tune with sellers’ interests, whereas Flippa’s natural tendency is partially out of tune. That was true before Kevin Fink arrived, and that fundamental setup is why Flippa is where it is.
Flippa’s problems are systemic. They’d be there no matter who runs the show:
1. Shill bids
2. Fake sales
3. Seller bias
Those are real documented problems. Flippa has tried to clamp down on 1 and 2 – and with some success. Unfortunately, Flippa amplified problem 3. During the past year, those of us who’ve criticized such issues have been smeared as “conspiracy theorists” by Flippa’s affiliates and super sellers. So thanks, Kevin, for admitting that the problems are real.
As the public face of Flippa among domainers, you take a lot of flak. It isn’t aimed at you. Anybody who takes a job and helps set policy steps into the line of fire – and justifiably so. As you know from prviate conversations, I’m happy to suggest opportunities for Flippa to gain positive exposure; and I want Flippa to work well. We both know that the more we engage in public debate, the more people throw bricks at the backs of our heads. Part of the job. Engaging with critics is the only way to improve the status quo.
I was wondering where you were. This was great,
“Now Flippa has an adult-sized seller footprint, but its buyer footprint is just stepping into puberty. The proportion has been thrown off.”
G I wonder why Rick Scwartz doesn’t post on name pros or sell on Flippa. Ha I wonder why Mike Berkens doesn’t post on namepros or sell on Flippa ? I wonder why any domainer that’s of any real stature doesnt post on name pros or sell on flippa, anybody got the answer to that question ?
@Jathon,
The answer is that domainers of “any real stature” like Rick Schwartz or Michael Berkens have accumulated enough wealth that they don’t need to rely on continual inventory turnover for cash flow.
Most of us are not in that position. Some balance of retail and wholesale selling is the norm. The typical domainer looks to short-term sales for part of his revenue – to smooth over the ups and downs of those less frequent transactions that maximize a domain’s potential value. That extra income allows a person to cover renewal fees and take advantage of acquisition opportunities as they arise.
1 approach won’t work for everybody. Aiming for the absolute maximum retail price works well if another source of funds allows you to say no to sales. But there will be dry spells, and people without a large cash pile find they can’t afford to buy even when they know they should buy.
Many of us are happy to liquidate less important inventory at auction or in domainer-to-domainer transactions in the forums or by email. Naturally, that means fetching prices below the assets’ long-term potential, but that often makes strategic sense.
Maxing out sale prices at 100% isn’t the only goal. If Flippa or any other platform allowed us to cash out at 20% of max. retail value on 100% of our inventory within 12 months, then many of us would retire by next year.