If you buy and sell on Flippa or you are thinking about it, there is an excellent back and forth discussion on Namepros that is a must read. The thread started out about the Whiskey.com $2,000,000 bogus bid, but on comment 86, Image Authors gave his opinion of what he sees happening on Flippa. I can say in private some others have expressed similar concerns. The brokers who sell on the platform vs the individual is an interesting dynamic. Kevin Fink from Flippa is an active participant in the thread and does a nice job of explaining things from his perspective. Kevin really has been the straw that has stirred the drink in Flippa becoming more active in domain only auctions.
I think for many the things Image Author and Kevin Fink bring up will be informative for those new to the platform, and some things may even be an eye opener for those who have sold there already.
The first comment from Image Authors:
Kevin, my own conclusion about Flippa has been this:
Flippa gives privileged marketing to a small group of sellers over and over again. This helps create the impression that “If those guys can succeed, then so can I”.
In reality, Flippa’s top-visibility spots are often taken up by a privileged group of sellers and by shill bidders who climb the “most active” ladder through fraudulent activities of their own (for which Flippa is not directly responsible).
Ordinary Flippa customers must pay a variety of extra fees to get their auctions seen. Essentially, these fees are Flippa’s real business model. I’m guessing they account for much more revenue than percentage-based commissions from auctions that actually succeed.
6 or 12 months ago, the playing field on Flippa used to be much more level, much more fair. But in the past months, the market place has become increasingly lopsided.
In fact, the selling situation at Flippa has become so absurdly skewed that a few special Flippa sellers will contact the rest of us and tell us that we need to let them list our domains because of all the special perks they get and all the “watchers” they’ve accumulated.
That isn’t brokerage. It’s just a few people with head-of-the-line privileges shaking down the rest of Flippa customers who must stand in line behind them. Frankly, it’s ridiculous.
As time goes by, the situation on Flippa will become less and less fair, less and less competitive. Why? Because people with premium domains will be convinced to give their domains to some special Flippa seller so that he can list it for them — pretty much as they would have done themselves — and skim off an additional 15%.
Why do those guys get that extra 15%? Not because of any special outreach they’re doing. No, their “brokerage” pitch to sellers is based on the special perks they get (and the sellers can’t get) from Flippa management and on the watchers they’ve accumulated as a result of those special perks. The deck is stacked against normal sellers.
If the owners of good domains would list their stuff themselves on Flippa, then they’d accumulate a list of “watchers” themselves. But, as things are, they simply cannot get seen! Not unless they pay for a long list of add-ons to show up alongside the special privileged sellers. Not unless they ask their friends to place lots of fake bids below the reserve.
So what happens? Premium domain owners get sucked in to the idea of letting a privileged class of Flippa sellers act as a layer between themselves and any possible success on the platform. Those sellers scrape off an extra 15% just for creating listings, which is exorbitant and unearned, in my opinion. And worst of all for Flippa customers, all the “watchers” that would have gone to them go instead to the “broker” who stands first in line. So over time, their own sales and their own success contributes to making the playing field at Flippa more unequal!
It’s a very bad deal for Flippa customers. Simply atrocious, in my opinion.
Am I bitter? No, I don’t think so. 6 to 12 months ago, I had some decent sales at Flippa. But since then the selling environment has gone downhill. Really downhill.
Not worth $9 to list anything. It’s too much of an uphill battle to get seen — and an increasingly unnatural uphill battle, tilted more and more steeply due to Flippa management desicions.
Kevin, I like you personally. And I’ve even received some free promotional upgrades in the past, which I appreciate. Auctions and sales are always hit or miss. But Flippa is stacking the deck AGAINST regular customers.
I stopped listing at Flippa not because stuff wasn’t selling (from time to time it still sells if you’re lucky enough to be seen through the shill bids and special “brokers” with front-of-the-line privileges). I stopped selling because I felt like I was jogging and Flippa kept tilting the slope up. At this point, selling at Flippa for most of us is like running up a 70-degree incline. Unless we agree to give 15% to special sellers with access to attention.
I certainly wouldn’t want to pay extra just to even things up on a basically unequal platform. And as for surrendering to a special class of Flippa brokers in order to get a normal degree of visibility, count me out!
Here is the first reply from Kevin Fink:
You can follow the whole thread from that point on by clicking here
Tom says
Flippa needs to show bidder Id’s, it is to easy to shill bid, or get friends to bid. Great for Flippa more commissions, bad for sellers, many auctions I have been in, many buyers present this frustration, FLIPPA HAS NEVER GIVEN ONE GOOD REASON WHY THEY CONTINUE DOWN THIS ROAD?
Kevin Fink says
We’re taking this into heavy consideration and I’d like to discuss off-site with you, if interested…
Dee says
thanks for this… new to flippa and image author opened my eyes with his post. Special perks for some and not for others, ebay seems fairer.
Image authors you have done great service for us all.
Kevin Fink says
Would have been nice to share the other side in Ray’s post. Reach out to me with anything you wish to discuss…
Raymond Hackney says
Kevin I added your first reply in the post, I was trying not to post everything here, but there are still plenty of good posts for people to click through to read.
Kevin Fink says
Thanks man.
Kostas says
I couldn’t agree more with your article. This is exactly what is happening now (and will continue to happen) on flippa. Every flippa user should read this.
Todd G says
I really appreciate this I didn’t realize there was a whole other game being played. I mean it’s pretty complicated then you can sell yourself but brokers get better deals.so makes sense to have them sell for you instead. I appreciate Kevin being so dedicated as well that is a long response to the initial post.
NameConnect says
I think the point we missed here is Flippa filled a void, the ability to not only sell premiums but give a pitch to end users that may be interested as to WHY they should buy. As a result, I have personally seen heightened interest on domains brought to market as I do outreach to end users inviting them to bid. Flippa has had issues in the past but what’s important is they recognize and are rectifying the issues.
All startups have growth problems though I personally don’t see the need for hard work to gain exposure as one of them. Half of the higher end domain sales I read about are out of Flippa’s marketplace so I applaud them for pushing the domain industry by bringing together developers, end users and Domain owners.
Frank says
There was no void, I will take godaddy anyday.
Eric Gargiulo says
Very interesting article. I sold quite a few websites last year on Flippa but this year my sales were zero. Granted my inventory was better, but it just seemed like there was less attention overall (less comments, questions, etc). This may have shed some light on it. The problem is what is the alternative? Sure there are other avenues and I have used those, but the mass audience on Flippa is hard to find elsewhere.
Don says
I really like Flippa and have made several purchases on the site which I considered good deals. I do agree that the promotional fees are rather exorbitant and in my opinion, listing fees should be free for sellers especially if a seller is required to pay a percentage of the sale which is pretty significant.
One major complaint I have is that as of recent, I have tried to contact Flippa on a couple of inquiries and never received a response. Therefore, I can definitely say as a customer, a buyer, and recent seller, they certainly need to be more engaging with their customers. ALL CUSTOMERS.
Kevin Fink says
What email did you write to?
Jon Tavarez says
How do we get in touch with these brokers?
Andy G says
I was approached by one of these special brokers to sell some of my premium domains. He was cocky, rude and condescending – and couldn’t justify to me why I need to pay an extra fee just to have the privilege to sell with him. I have a large portfolio of very good domains I was going to sell through Flippa (which I’ve been building for over 15 years), but I won’t if this article rings true and people like the broker who approached me are running the show.
Alan Dodd says
Hi guys,
Has anyone a quick link to the thread? For the life of me I can’t find it. How do I find it on namepros? I searched for flippa on namepros and brought up a thread of 7 replies which I presume is not it?
Raymond Hackney says
https://www.namepros.com/threads/whiskey-com-was-at-2-000-000-on-flippa-fake-bid-removed.839852/page-4#post-4742109
Alan Dodd says
Raymond – thanks.
Boluji says
Well Joseph have spoken his mind and you have tried to defend the whole thing but one thing remains fact is that two people can not be guilty of the truth behind the whole seen.
All I can say is just let flipa be more active and transparent in your business transaction because many people are watching from sideline.
I wish more success in your business dealings.
Stu says
Problem is with flippa they know shill bidding is going on and they do nothing i complained so they banned me…
If you say anything negative against flippa they ban you, they are run by a bad regime a dictatorship…Adolf, Saddam eat your heart out.
The sooner a serious rival comes along the better.
Jill says
“…..they are run by a bad regime…..
You can sort of get that idea from their personal tweets…..
“The sooner a serious rival comes along the better.”
It may happen much sooner than you think. But it wont be a rival. It will be much classier. Business CAN be done without shady tactics and still be profitable. 😉
Kevin Fink says
Personal tweets?
Kevin Fink says
Hi Stu,
What’s your Flippa username?
Curious to find out what happened and how I can help.
Kevin Fink says
I work daily with the Customer Success and Marketplace Integrity teams.
If they ban someone…it’s for a damned good reason.
Simply suggesting improvements, or even outright complaining to us, does not constitute being banned from our platform.
Shill bidding, however, does. We have a zero-tolerance policy on shill bidders.
One thing that I mentioned in the forum is that if you or anyone reading spots dicey behavior, we want to know about it.
A reply was “Well, that’s your job, not ours” — and yes, we have teams who do eradicate the bad behavior on the daily.
But since we can’t be on top of every single auction at every single hour of every single day, we do encourage people to speak up — we take it tremendously seriously, and no — we won’t ban you for mentioning it.
Dex says
As for the “brokers” with “special perks” , this had become plainly obvious to me within the 30 days or so.
Ali ( KCgroup ) had previously been listing mediocre to second-tier domains at best , but within the past month his listings all of a sudden became premium to ultra-premium domains. This struck me as highly peculiar , considering the quality of his previous listings.
I did a Whois check and discovered that Ali ( KCgroup ) is not the owner of any of the high-end domains he has listed. He was brokering.
Kevin admitted he facilitated the brokerage between Ali and the less successful seller. If that isn’t a “special perk” I don’t know what is.
Kevin Fink says
Hi Dex,
By saying less successful seller, that was misguided of me. True, there are some sellers who have had no luck selling a domain, only to have a proxy seller find success.
What I was more referring to was the portfolio owner that has absolutely no time to sell their domains; nor are they at all willing or able to become as active as needed to be successful on Flippa.
As such, there is a market for brokers within our platform to assist in the selling of these domains.
That said, and per my comments above and throughout the forum, the ‘perks’ that brokers receive are the same that are available to all sellers: discounts on listing and upgrade costs, as well as additional promotion for high-end inventory.
Subsidies and reduced costs for upgrades are available to you, too — I’ve made myself available and reachable via multiple channels and am happy to discuss anytime.
Kevin Fink says
Hi Dex,
Things are being conflated quite astonishingly, so I would like to first reiterate that the “perks” that these brokers are receiving are no different than what anyone — yourself included — would receive if you work with someone on the Domains team at Flippa.
These “perks” are merely discounted / subsidized listings and upgrades, as well as greater exposure around high-end inventory.
If you’re reading this and think you’re excluded from this “special treatment,” I urge you to contact me — I’m visible in forums, on our blog, or via my Domains@Flippa email addy.
The worst that can happen is my being honest and saying “I don’t think that this domain will do so hot at auction / with that reserve / with these parameters, but here are some credits and access to upgrade subsidies if you’re still interested in trying.”
The best that can happen is my being honest and saying “This is an amazing domain, and I’d like to feature it as a Flippa Exclusive / stick in the Editors’ Choice section / provide you a discounted upgrade…”
One last thing — I made mention of a “less successful” seller, the person that handed Ali his portfolio of high-end inventory to broker.
I misspoke; it’s not that this person was “less successful;” it’s that he was simply unable — both in terms of time and interest — to actively tend to his Flippa account. He wanted someone else to sell his domains for him.
There’s a vast use-case for this, and we’ll be finding ways to fill this request for our members. If you’re reading this and are interested in such a service, you wouldn’t be the first person from this thread to reach out to us asking when it will be available.
As for brokers selling domains within the general marketplace — as we build our brokerage platform, we are exploring adjunct ways to deliver it.
The obvious solution is to house brokered domains in a separate section. It creates visibility for the domain owner / broker, it’s a funneled place buyers will go, and mitigates this friction that is occurring throughout all these forums.
Hope that all makes sense.
Ted Ward says
I wondered how Ali went from the hand registered P-shit on the SHERPA review to the names now on Flippa
You should rerun this also on the domains
All these names at Auction should have same owners as the “WHOIS” shows.
Many of the domains are with a reseller then you see them on flippa listed without the domainr owner giving his OK or even knowing “WHATUp”
Scott Neuman says
I’m not sure what problem you have with someone acting as broker for a domain name that seems to be doing a good job?
Kevin Fink says
“Many of the domains are with a reseller then you see them on flippa listed without the domainr owner giving his OK or even knowing ‘WHATUp’ ”
Of all the things that have been said, erroneous and otherwise, this one makes the least amount of sense. It’s also simply not true, but feel free to share links you feel represent what you’re referring to…
Joseph Peterson says
It’s telling that Flippa has gone from reassuring everybody that special brokers “are no different” … to putting its entire corporate weight behind KCGroup as the site’s official “senior broker”.
Quite a contradiction! By hard-wiring this imbalance into the system, Flippa has proved my point decisively.
Frank says
I agree with everything you have ever said about them, Joseph, I would never do business with that outfit.
philly says
nice information in here, i think i need the brokerage services of such power sellers. am OK with giving them the 15% profit value, how do i contact them. can you connect me to one or 2 of them?
Bee says
I just had a bad experience with flippa.
I purchased 2 websites and placed a bid on one Android app and decided not to pay for it because I discovered that the app wasn’t working with lollipop. I explained the seller, but he filed a dispute. In my flippa account I didn’t see any request for answering this dispute, nor that the seller filed one. Flippa banned me because I didn’t answer the dispute. now they ask me for an ID to see if they can reinstate my account. This is not fair and they are not allowed to ID people, they are not a financial institution or anything like that. And I am afraid that my personal data gets stolen.
I find this practice very unfair. They should look at both sides.
Flippa be fair and stop asking for ID’s. You are not allowed to. I am ready to file a few complaints with some organizations.
adam says
I have never dealt with flippa, or buying and selling websites, I want to enter this field (buying and selling websites), what do you advise me?
Rob says
If you are still around, I would not advise doing business on flippa. Just saw an ongoing exchange with flippa about a sale made to a woman that turned out to be a fraudulent sale.
A friend of mine has tried to get fair treatment from flippa regarding the horrible treatment from both the seller (who took her money and didn’t deliver the complete business she was supposed to have bought) and flippa staff who advised her what she could do.
Flippa staff have been horrible toward my female friend. They even talked down to her like she was a kid or something. I would never do business with that website. Look for alternatives.